New team from Bournemouth and Poole College.

edited January 2015 in IET Formula 24+
Hello

Just a post as way of a short introduction. I am Wayne Weedon a lecturer in engineering at Bournemouth and Poole College.

Last week we took delivery of a Greenpower Formula 24 kit car which is being built by our fulltime level 2 engineering students who have volunteered their time one evening a week.

Our students are based right accross our engineering department. Some from Motor vehicle technology, some Machinists and also quite a number of welder/fabricators.

It is our intention to build the kitcar as an entry into the series and in parallel develop another car which is likely to be more bespoke.

Our first session was Monday this week and they were able to acheive quite a lot in their first evening.

We however did stumble across a couple of problems and maybe some of the Greenpower veterans will be able to point us in the right direction.

Firstly the "Disc Brake Hub"

http://shop.greenpower.co.uk/index.php/f24-24/drive-system/disc-brake-hub.html

...of which two were supplied in the kit. is obviously ok for the final drive sprocket fitted to the rear axle.

But we can only assume the M5 tapped holes in the second hub require drilling out to M5 clearance to enable it to be bolted to the tapped disc flange on the drive wheel.

Secondly we seem to have not particularly nice front end geometry as built apparently to the drawings in the build manual. It almost looks like the rose joint forming the top swivel requires a spacer under it.

Any pictures of the front assembly on a stock built car would be appreciated. We were not able to diagnose much further on Monday as our evening was coming to an end when we were looking at it.

Hoping to get out there sometime this year.

Wayne...

Comments

  • Hi Wayne, welcome to the Greenpower Forums,

    A pretty accurate model of a fully assembled kit car can be found here: http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_gb/academic/projects-competitions/greenpower.shtml

    Its been some time since we assembled our kit car, but I'm sure that no modification to the hubs is required at all, but it's possible the design has changed since we started 4 years ago.

    The front geometry didn't require any special parts to be made either, but again maybe changes have been made. Some views of our car can be found at: http://www.statusracingteam.co.uk/resources/forum/kit_wayne/

    Sorry if they aren't very clear... The 3D Model might be more helpful.

  • edited January 2015
    Dan.

    I downloaded and installed SolidEdge student version at home so I could open the Greenpower 3D models.

    It actually does show a spacer (spindle arm spacer) between the joints and the stub axle fabrication. All that was actually shown in the build manual was one of the plain washers from the box supplied. The bolts should idealy be socket capheads too as the points of the hex on the stock bolts foul the joint.

    It's not a big problem, we can turn up some nice spacers tomorrow to suit.

    The hub will require drilling as there would be no way to bolt to the wheels disc flange if both the bub and the wheel are tapped.

    We have another team (motor vehicle students) working on the car tomorrow night.

    At this rate it will be mobile sometime next week.

    Wayne...
  • edited January 2015
    Ah, sorry about that, it's been a while since we assembled our kit car (2011!), I thought you were talking about the Discs for the brakes, and that you intended to drill the wheel hubs, I should have clicked on the link first...

    We modified our axle such that it uses a bike freewheel for drive instead, so I can't really provide any pictures on how ours is assembled compared to yours, since it now only uses one of the drive hubs.

    I do know that the car should only be one wheel drive, so that no complex differential is required, so the second rear wheel shouldn't spin with the drive wheel.
  • Hi Wayne

    It is certainly easiest to drill out the second hub to M5 clearance. This should be shown in the manual - we can send you a newer version if not.

    If you email helpline@greenpower.co.uk we'll send you some images of the front end set up - it certainly shouldn't be necessary to make any spacers.

    Thanks

    Admin.
  • Hello Wayne,

    We had our first kit car nearly two years ago and we certainly did as you are suggesting and turned up some tapered spacers for the top and bottom of each rose joint in order that we could get full travel without any interference at the joints. The only fine adjustment was to the positioning of the track rods so that they didn't foul on the chassis rails when on full lock. We now have a second car and have re-designed some aspects of the kit car steering to hopefully improve clearances. We feel one other useful change is to employ go-kart track rods that allow for easier adjustment of tracking due to using one left hand threaded rose joint on each rod.

    John
  • Hi Wayne,

    Hopefully these pictures will help.

    photo IMG_1909_zpsgsggvc3a.jpg

    photo IMG_1908_zpsmzl4elge.jpg

    photo IMG_1907_zpsoebbxo4u.jpg

    photo IMG_1906_zpsmldd2qhg.jpg


    -Admin
  • edited January 2015
    Hub, has now been dealt with, and we now have a rolling chassis.

    The rose joints shown in your pictures above seem to be of a different type to those supplied in our kit. They in fact look like the ball is slightly larger which would give more movement. Ours also do not have oiling points.

    image

    You can see the spacers we made in the above image. We now have reasonable steering lock without the joints binding.

    image

    Above is our progress so far over the two 3 hours sessions this week.

    Wayne...
  • Just a quick post to let you know we have not given up on this project!

    New academic year now so we have started again. This year I have opened up the project to apprentices we teach. This should allow us to make some decent progress.

    The apprentices working on the car currently, are from a large company who are very keen they get involved, so good news all around.

    We are currently wrapping up some small jobs left over from last year, brakes being one of those jobs. I expect we may end up using hydraulic disc brakes as cable routing seems to be very fussy.

    Bodywork is a major task to start looking at. Anyone know a good value source for Blue rigid foam?

    My team leader and myself recently attended to Parkstone Grammar/Siemens/IET Greenpower presentation at Bournemouth university, and it was a very interesting evening. I left with a few ideas to stew over.

    Wayne...
  • Not sure why you are experiencing all these issues. Our year 7 team members built a kit car last summer term without having to modify anything. This car has since achieved several podiums and was runner up in the International Final on Saturday.
  • Hi Wayne, we met at the IET event at Bournemouth Uni. We went through the same process identifying the blue foam and the dos and don’ts.

    Turns out it is called Styrofoam, Dow Floormate 300-A, It comes in three sheet thicknesses, 50 mm (8 pack), 75 mm (5 pack) and 100 mm (4 pack). We did the calcs and the best value for volume is the 100 mm thick. Dow indicate there is also a 200 mm thick sheet they do but hardly anyone in the UK stock this and it can be ordered but you have to get a minimum order of a palette’s worth.

    The closest place we could buy it from was SIG insulation in Southampton (CCF insulation at Tower park can order it but don’t stock it). It is massive, 2500 x 400 x 600 and won’t fit in an estate so it is best to have it delivered. We have subsequently found that SIG insulation have a internet site where you can get it a bit cheaper. Link below.

    http://www.insulationexpress.co.uk/Floor-Insulation/Dow-Floormate-300A-Styrofoam-Insulation-Boards.htm

    You glue it with Evostik non solvent contact adhesive (B&Q stock this) and you can paint it with a water based gloss or emulsion. Anything with solvents in it will melt it including normal Evostik or IPA as we were surprised to discover last week.
  • edited October 2015
    Hi, we will probably use epoxy to bond it. I have used the extruded blue foam previously in aeromodelling, and we always used epoxy resin. Just this time we need a lot more than I ever used in modelling!

    We have now ordered 18 sheets of the 50mm size and it will be with us next week.

    Wayne...
  • We used styrofoam to form a mould for our front axle aero parts.
    1) Cut out profiles (we used a CAM router)
    2) Bond profiles together with epoxy.
    3) Wrap in shiny tape.
    4) Laminate carbon and epoxy over the top
    5) Dissolve the styrofoam with acetone - the shiny tape aids cleaning out the interior of the part - very messy but fun - windows open or outside...
    6) Admire hollow carbon aerodynamic part :)

    Ben
  • SimSim
    edited October 2015
    Never realised you could use the styrofoam as a former to create a shell and melt its innards. Learnt something new today. What epoxy do you guys use to bond it?
  • West system, just bond round the edges so the acetone can pass through...
  • You can get it from Blue Gee in Poole. They used to be on the Poole bridge approach, but now moved to

    Unit 2, Cabot Business Village, Holyrood Close, Poole, Dorset, BH17 7BA

    More expensive than polyester resin, but safe on foam.

    Wayne..
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